January 6th, 2013
|das_mervin||08:46 pm - THE CHATTERBOX: The Fifty Shades Trilogy|
The Chatterbox: The Fifty Shades Trilogy
Just as I know Twilight is the biggest draw of the comm, I know this series is the second biggest, and it just might be the most vocal. As such, it definitely needs its own forum. This is where you can talk about the series Fifty Shades of Grey. Talk anything you want, so long as it relates back to the series and stays on-topic and follows the basic Das Sporking rules.
So. I've read this. I hate it. But, I have to admit, I've read it from many standpoints, and I've gotten some of my friends' opinions on it. Gotta say, watching my friend Emily flip out over the Bike of Doom was the best part - she threw the book out an open window. I have that on video, somewhere.
I would love to see this!
You know, when I first heard the sporkers call Grey "Gaston," the FIRST thing I thought was:
"Nobody does BDSM like Gaston!"
...and now I have to write alternate lyrics to that song.
I've read a lot of books in my life, but 50 Shades, hands down, has to be the worst I've ever finished. I don't want to be one of the people who puts Twilight/50 Shades under all "Worst Book/Movie/Etc" lists, but 50 Shades is... hgkjdghkjsdgkd. At least you can make fun of Twilight. I read 50 Shades because the parodies made it seem silly. Boy did it disappoint in the So-Bad-It's-Good department. I've been bored to tears (Scarlet Letter) and infuriated beyond belief (Wuthering Heights) by certain books, and if I earned a dollar for every YA romance that offended me, I'd have a golden limousine or two. But then there's 50 Shades, which makes me feel frightened.
Like many women around the world, I compare my boyfriend to Christian Gray. I think how excited I am to see Jimmy while Anastasia is always intimidated. I think of the gifts I get from my boyfriend and squeegle while Ana is infuriated with hers and constantly trying to return them. I think of how caring, sweet and funny my boyfriend is and feel safe around him. Does Ana ever feel safe around Hellspawn? I think of how Jimmy never pressures me into sex, doesn't message me 24/7 and doesn't get pissed off if I don't answer. I wondered what would've happened if I had "my own Christian Grey" like so many fangirls want, and I get scared. Doesn't help I'm brunette either. Everyday, I think I'm the luckiest person in the world for having someone like my boyfriend.
I think what gets me about 50 Shades is that horrific people like Hellspawn are real, and not only does the series praise him as the ultimate guy and that a relationship like his with Ana is a dream come true, he is adored and praised by millions of women everywhere. Not just mere millions, we're talking best-seller levels. To celebrate mediocrity is one thing, but celebrating rape and abuse?
To end it on a less somber note, I'd sooner play E.T. on the Atari 2600 for five hours than read 50 Shades again.
Edited at 2013-01-07 10:32 am (UTC)
|Date:||January 7th, 2013 07:06 pm (UTC)|| |
I think of how caring, sweet and funny my boyfriend is and feel safe around him. Does Ana ever feel safe around Hellspawn?
Say, you ever heard of Louis C.K.? This guy's a comedian who admitted to his audience over how astounded he was over parents bragging about how they beat their kids. In fact, he stated how it makes the parents look like; that they only seemed proud about swatting a smaller person with their hands instead of trying to reason and show them exactly why their behaviour is associated as something bad.
I pretty much got that vibe from Christian, the whole, "Duh-huh, I bashed you with my fleshy hand and got off, I'm SO awesome."
Just...seriously people, that's all he is about. Every waking moment, he looks for an excuse to get that 'beat and ejaculate' high.
At LEAST my guy acts like a person in the presence of his parents. At least he instantly tries to socialise and talk to my friends when he meets them, rather than, "Errr, I wonder how much sex and abuse I can squeeze in on this moment?"
DUDE I KNOW ITS EROTICA BUT DON'T YOU EVER THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE? GOD.
To end it on a less somber note, I'd sooner play E.T. on the Atari 2600 for five hours than read 50 Shades again.
Yeah, I got Creatures. I'd rather get frustrated trying to discipline and educate fictional creatures than endure Fifty Shades without an awesome commentary.
I think one of the things that irritates me about 50 Shades of Grey (there are so many) is that everything Grey does is excused because he's rich and pretty. Everything is okay because of this or it can be explained away because of this. All of Ana's attraction is based on this (like it was said on one of the chapter sporkings, all the qualities that Ana says she likes about him don't come up at all). It just irritates me because it is so shallow and Grey is so horrible, even worse than Edward I think, that the book could have ended in Ana's murder at Grey's hand and it wouldn't have surprised me. And yes, there are men (and women) out there who are charming and beautiful but rotten on the inside.
Even the whole 'he was abused so it wasn't his fault' excuse would not be used if he wasn't handsome. When Ana imagines child!Grey, she always imagined him very cute and pretty and it seemed to be written like the neglect he went through was almost worse somehow because he was cute and adorable.
I don't know whether I'm just overreacting to the writing and how much both Ana and Grey irritate me. This book just screams 'if your partner is good-looking, ignore everything else bad about them and hang on to them as much as possible'. Which makes me want to kick something. Preferably Christian Grey.
I think the thing that irritates me the most is the whole Freudian Excuse angle. Not just because it doesn't make any sense, or because I've known people who suffered far worse abuse and not gone on to become violently abusive, or how it's clearly Ana's role to Heal Him With Love, or even the "You can only like BDSM because you're damaged!" thing.
It irritates me because I once had a job with kids who'd been abused, and every single abuser had their own "Here is why I can't be held responsible for my actions!" sob story. It didn't involve a lot of "I was abused as a child myself!" (different cultural context, so what was seen as mitigating circumstances was different), but the way they used the excuses, how tailored they were to create sympathy, the kinds of emotional buttons they pushed, and how they didn't really line up with the calculating and deliberate behavior, all gave off a very distinctive vibe. And Christian Grey totally gives off that vibe.
|Date:||January 7th, 2013 04:11 pm (UTC)|| |
One of the things I'm thankful for 50 Shades is that it brought up more debates on how male kids should be raised--or even, be expected of when they treat women in their adult lives.
Fifty Shades reinforces this 'men can be abusive and it's still okay' belief. Because if a human life form was designated a 'sperm donor' by nature, it means the rest of us would have to pussy-foot around him to make sure he doesn't explode in rage and damage others. In a long run, that doesn't make a good quality for someone that wants to become a leader, or a parent or anything.
So when I first read figments of it, I was horrified. I realised, "Hey, if Christian Grey was so ready to hit a girl for saying "No, I don't want an expensive car," how would he react if he had a kid who said, "No dad, I wanted a Nintendo Wiu, not an Xbox."?
...'Cause well, if he was so ready to hit another person for some imagined slight, or because he had his own selfish rules--chances are he won't show restraint either to his own kids.
So it's definitely not cool celebrating that, especially since behaviours like this in a real world setting can influence and affect others into doing the same in different scenarios and settings.
Because if you go to a country that was USED to totalitarian rules and behaviours, you'd meet a lot of elderly people who were just SCARED to speak up. I've had grandparents who were treated so rudely by abrasive doctors and nurses.But whenever some young person gets rightfully angry, the elderly would quickly say, "Don't! Then you wouldn't be able to get treatment here because they'll try to hurt you for saying that!"
The reason why my grandparents became like that was because they witnessed people get their own sort of 'power' high. They witnessed ordinary chicken-farmers become police guards who would quickly capture a 'communist' and question them. They could easily choose whether a person could go home alive or be executed, simply because of barely concrete evidence like, "Oh, he/she knows how to read".Same goes for doctors, who were seen and taught that they are so 'special' and have their own voice of authority. So if anyone was found to be abusive, no one can do anything because they would be targeted or punished for stopping it.
So yeah, okay. This is a pretty far-out interpretation on a random erotica novel. It's just that now, some people are trying to make their lives better--even their own culture and system. Because there are still world-leaders and members of high-paying jobs, with Christian Grey's personality, and people with Christian Grey's personality are so ASS-BACKWARDS, they wind up holding back everyone else's concept of safety and personal growth.
Like my grandparents; it would be nice if they found out that they can tell a doctor, "Stop shouting at me if I don't want to take and pay for a certain treatment. I have my own rights and you can't control me. Back away, and don't you dare step over the legal boundaries of your job on me ever again." Because at least they know they can feel secure about themselves, and especially if they need help, they would get help--without the fear of being harassed, manipulated or insulted.
So this is why I'm sort of grateful for 50 Shades. Because it's bringing out a whole lot of smart and decent people to say, "What, that is NOT okay.That is definitely NOT okay." It's definitely not what EL James wanted, but it's making other people take notice what constitutes a decent member of society, and what doesn't.
So yeah, I hate that stupid book with a passion, and I was initially worried that it might put us all 10 years back--but now it turns out it's become a public subject on how much we should tolerate a person like Christian Grey.
/if he was so ready to hit another person for some imagined slight, or because he had his own selfish rules--chances are he won't show restraint either to his own kids./
That’s why I cringed when I learned that Ana and Christian will have kids in the future. Not only because they’re so awful and are the last people who should have kids, but because I can’t imagine how he’ll treat his children. Especially his daughter. With everything that Christian has done to Ana and the type of person that he is, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he ended up sexually abusing his own daughter later on. Either Ana will be utterly oblivious because she’s brain-dead and thinks that Christian do no wrong or, even worse, she’ll blame the poor girl for “trying to steal her husband away,” directing all of her anger at her daughter instead of her husband. If that doesn’t happen (and I sincerely hope that it doesn’t), the kids will still need therapy just from watching how their ‘wonderful’ daddy treats Mommy. Hopefully, they’ll run away to be raised by Kate instead. Or, if history repeats itself and one of the kids grows up to be a psychopath, I hope that they’ll show Daddy Dearest how much they learned from him.
If this crap actually gets made into a movie, I will gather everyone I can and protest it. Just as I would if EL Fudge came to sign autographs at a book store near me. THAT'S HOW ANGRY I GET.
|Date:||January 7th, 2013 11:05 pm (UTC)|| |
Yay! Father Ted!
Yeah, I would actually walk up to the movie theaters, and staple over the movie poster with 'American Psycho' or 'Sleeping with the Enemy'.
I would try like, at early mornings, midnight, anything, until the movie theater people GIVE up.
Okay so I've got a question for you all.
Now, I'm not someone who claims to be in any way knowledgeable when it comes to BDSM or D/s. I don't know my ass from my elbow. Which is fine. Now what I want to know is if sub-space is a thing, like I've always thought it is, and whether this book not mentioning that (yet, but I mean, we're halfway through, so...) is a bad thing or if sub-space is a rarer thing and the stuff I read just happens to mention it.
I mean, there's a lot of stuff about this that pisses me off. I mean a LOT, but that particular bit is something I'm curious about your opinions on, especially since some of you guys have more wisdom in this area than me, and the internet tends to be somewhat... strangely unhelpful, in this regard.
Subspace is definitely a thing. Whether or not I dropped into it depended on how I was being played with. There was a certain flogger my ex used that would make me drop very quickly. If I was in a proper mindset, just bondage alone could make me drop. Some subs rarely or never drop at all, and some drop very easily.
Not mentioning the term could be because of Ana's utter ignorance on the subject of BDSM (or the author's), so it doesn't bother me that the term itself has never come up. If I'm in a generous mood, I could say that some of the floating Ana describes feeling could be an indication of subspace, but for me it was definitely more than a feeling for floating.
|Date:||January 8th, 2013 05:49 pm (UTC)|| |
This Series Horrifies me.
I love reading horror stories and novels. I love Lovecraft, McCammon, M.R. James, etc.. To me, there's nothing better than curling up with a good book about evil creatures that want to do horrible and creepifying things to poor, ordinary mortals.
I love being spooked and scared. There's something very cathartic about having a good scream or being shocked by a jump scare in a good book or movie.(the ending of Psycho still gives me the heebie-jeebies.)
But this series doesn't scare me. It horrifies me. The fact that this is being touted as the Great Romance of Our Times annoys me, yes, but that alone wouldn't be enough to horrify. No, what's horrifying is the reactions I've read from some of the fans.
I recently stumbled across the IMDB message board for the movie(no date, thank God) and while most of the posts were innocuous(mostly who they want cast), there were a few that basically said, "Stop accusing Grey of being an abuser! Ana consented to everything!"
NO SHE FUCKING WELL DID NOT.
That is what horrifies me. The fact that so many women can read this series and not see Grey for the monster that he truly is. They dream about having a man just like him, and swoon over how 'romantic' he is. They don't see the abuse-mental, emotional, and physical that he puts Ana through. They don't see that the 'romance' is about as deep and meaningful as a puddle. I've had more romance with my teddy bear. They don't see that far from Grey being a person damaged by childhood trauma he's actually a selfish bastard who uses the abused child excuse to justify himself.
Instead, they simper and whine about how they want to have a relationship just like Ana's and Christian's.
|Date:||January 9th, 2013 08:46 pm (UTC)|| |
Re: This Series Horrifies me.
That is what horrifies me. The fact that so many women can read this series and not see Grey for the monster that he truly is.
Like everybody here, I just hope to god it's the case of fans skimming pages and then trying to defend a book they hardly know. There are so many people on tumblr even, who have NO clue that there are women-oriented erotica ALL OVER the internet for free (better ones even).
Though, maybe some people are absolute idiots. It reminds me of a time when a certain storyline was so offensive, even a little scary, and it was okay'd by a tv show distributor and made in South Korea. I think it went for two seasons before it lost viewers. My mother thought it was a FANTASTIC tv show, only because it featured two pretty people falling in love. When in fact, the hero mistook the heroine as a prostitute (he only saw her for less than 5 minutes, tops) and so decides to stalk and bully her. It went beyond psychological and physical abuse. He even tries it in public in a college campus.
Also, he was engaged to another girl. Who he gets pushy on and yanks her around.
But then it turns out the heroine was a straight-A medical student, with a poor ol' dad who lives in a trailer because they are SO poor. She's only seen with old college professors in all hours because their health is so fragile she has to be there to give amazing medical advice and treatments just in case, when it looks like she's doing something 'private' with those guys. The hero never says a sincere apology, the first thing he tells her is, "Why did you lead me on to think of you like that?". She was still blamed for him bullying her.
Sure 'nough, they got together in the series. And I've found raving fans talking about how sweet it was and how sexy the hero is (in fact, I had one friend who said that it was okay that he stalked her, because damnit, he's so hot and it gives him an edgy vibe).
I guess it explains why the tv show constantly did a 'shower scene' with the hero after each moment when he acted like an asshole. I guess it's an equivalent to "LOOK AT THE SHINY SHINY!" but it's still horrifying to find adult women not even realising what was really going on.
|Date:||January 10th, 2013 01:45 am (UTC)|| |
How dost thou suck, Fifty Shades of Grey? Let me count the ways.
(Disclaimer: this is based mainly on the sporking.)
1. Ana, the protagonist who out-Bella Swans Bella Swan.
And I'm sure you'll agree that's quite an achievement. Ana has all of Bella's failings as a protagonist (flatness, informed wonderfulness, passivity, idiotic behaviour, rampant irrational erotomania) taken even further.
2. Christian, the Jerk Without A Heart Of Gold
Protip, romance authors: if you're going to have a dark, edgy, damaged lead who outwardly seems like a cruel, cold jackass but has ultimately redeeming qualities, it's a good idea to actually give them some redeeming qualities. Christian Grey is so lacking in a better side that it seems inconceivable that anyone could fall in love with him or even find him attractive. His only source of appeal seems to be his good looks and Ana jumping to conclusions about his darque past/inner pain/redeemability.
And that's before we get into him being a manipulative rapist. (Fans of the book would no doubt prevaricate at this and insist that Ana could say no if she wanted to.)
3. What planet does this take place on?
The characters aside, a problem I've repeatedly noted with Fifty Shades is that it can't decide whether it's a realistic novel with lots of sex set in the real world, or a silly ravishment fantasy taking place in Bizarro Pornoworld (where everyone is always hot, sex is the proper response to most social situations and there's no such thing as rape, just sex you didn't know you wanted yet). Its basic premise alone (stupidly rich stud unaccountably MUST HAVE naive, smitten everygirl for his sex toy) belongs firmly in the latter, yet it repeatedly tries badly to keep one foot in reality when really, it would probably be better off not bothering.
Re: How dost thou suck, Fifty Shades of Grey? Let me count the ways.
To add to the second point, if the writer feels the need to use "dark and twagic past" to give a reason for the lead's actions, the writer should do some research on psychology/poverty/health issues caused by drug abuse, so it doesn't sound like a half-assed excuse.
I'm just going to sit here and be amused that the author of the article thinks its "stunning" that the series is so popular.
|Date:||January 10th, 2013 09:05 pm (UTC)|| |
1) has anybody seen or read the deluge of novels riding on the inexplicable coattails of fifty shades' popularity? you know, "bared to you" and "reflected to you" by sylvia day, the "eighty days" series by vina jackson, "haven of obedience" by marina anderson and others with a "if you liked fifty shades youll love" sticker on the front?
if so, are any of them better than fifty shades, or just as bad? (its hard to imagine a novel thats worse.)
2) regarding fifty shades itself. we all know its twilight fic with the serial numbers filed off. but - stop me if ive asked this before - would you say that it was a worse original fic or a worse fan fic? its pretty bad at both, but at least when christian is christian he doesnt have characterization to butcher. christian as edward would seem very ooc to me, even considering how edward really is as opposed to how meyer intended him.
I haven't read the fanfic, save for the first chapter, but I'd say it's probably worse as a published novel, because you can see the characters come from Twilight, but they're still off. (In a fanfic, that would bother me too, but this is different somehow?) Like, it's not too far off from what the characters are actually like and it's so easy to spot what points in Twilight they are based on, so I can't see them as original characters, but at the same time, they don't work for fanfiction, either...
|Date:||January 25th, 2013 12:35 am (UTC)|| |
I Found Something Perfect
Re: I Found Something Perfect
...I love this .gif.
Is there a place I can read the original fanfic "Master of the Universe"?
|Date:||March 10th, 2013 12:35 am (UTC)|| |
I can send you a copy. What's your email?
I still don't understand why this piece of shit is so popular. I saw two girls reading it the other day, and they were discussing how 'romantic' it is. When I pointed out that Christian was an abusive douchebag who belonged in prison, they replied with 'oh, but it was still so romantic!' At that point, I facepalmed.
|Date:||March 14th, 2013 07:32 pm (UTC)|| |
Doesn't sound like they were listening, really.
I have a question to people in the lifestyle. After care was mentioned quite a few times as something Hellspawn should've done. Just what do you do for after care? (and when was that discussed in the spork since my brain tends to blur all the details for the sake of my sanity)
. . . I also don't know how to get my computer into safe mode and look it up myself, and I don't know of any credible websites over BDSM that'll be safe for my computer.
|Date:||March 19th, 2013 07:22 am (UTC)|| |
Okay, I'm not in the Lifestyle, but this is what I've picked up in the course of the sporking--though I'm definitely posting this link to Ket, who knows far more than I do.
A BDSM scene can be intense, physically and/or psychologically. So after that, the sub will probably need some time to relax and unwind. The dom is supposed to see to it that the sub gets what he or she needs. This can be anything from tending the sore areas to letting the sub talk to simply cuddling. It might involve just being with the person in total silence, or letting the person sleep. The point is, it's whatever a sub needs to come out of that intense mental space without crashing emotionally.
(And really, it's nothing shocking. Most couples practice some kind of aftercare after sex; they just don't call it that.)
Ana expresses what she wants as aftercare several times--but none of it is what Hellspawn wants to give. She needs to cuddle; he just wants to roll over so that he's facing away from her. She wants to to talk for a bit and then drift off to slumberland; he orders her to go to sleep immediately. In fact, he gets angry after Ana, who was spanked for the first time in her life and who found it terribly traumatic, is upset after he walks out afterwards. He blames her for not telling him that she was upset and needed him to stay...despite the fact that he knows perfectly well that Ana doesn't even know that aftercare exists.
Hellspawn doesn't practice aftercare. He does put lotion on Ana's ass after he beats her, yes. But he makes clear, in this book and in others, that he's doing this not because it's what Ana needs, but because it gets him off. When he deigns to ask how Ana is feeling, he generally does so with a glare and a perfunctory air. He shows no awareness that Ana could be upset, traumatized, scared, confused or anything other than blissfully ecstatic. And given a choice, he will fuck her, throw his clothes on and then leave. For all the consideration he shows Ana, she might as well be a RealDoll. And treating a human being like a thing is craptastic aftercare.
Here's an article from Yahoo! It's worksafe and written for the layperson who isn't into this.BDSM Safety: Subspace and After Care; What is Subspace and How Do You Handle It?Edited at 2013-03-19 07:23 am (UTC)
|Date:||April 11th, 2013 07:21 am (UTC)|| |
Okay, so I finished the book (and the spork, I think major awards should be given to Ket and Gehayi for getting through this despite all the bullshit they went through in their pasts. Four for you, Ket and Gehayi. You go Ket and Gehayi) and I was left wondering....would any of us haters be satisfied if the whole thing just ended at the first book? I mean, what if Ana never went back to Hellspawn? It wouldn't fix all the flaws and the abuse and everything, but would you consider it to be like a little bit less stupid and infuriating? I still hate this thing with the raging fury of a thousand radioactive suns, but I am curious as to how other people feel.
I think I'd be much happier if it ended on the first book, yes. I'm not sure if the book would be as popular, considering that James intended the ending to be unhappy, and it does "ruin the fantasy." Even if it managed to top the charts, we still have the Unfortunate Implications that every person who's into BDSM is "damaged" in some way. :/
Edited at 2013-04-15 08:02 pm (UTC)
When will the new recaps be up?
|Date:||May 13th, 2013 04:52 pm (UTC)|| |
We don't know. I'm sorry. We have fourteen items stockpiled, if that helps.
My sister is half-way through reading Fifty Shades of Grey, and hates it.
Mind you, she doesn't hate for the right reasons. She doesn't even know why she hates it. She just does. And that's good enough for me. In fact, I think its cause for a celebration.
Virtual sweets, I don't know what kind of sweets, pick one, for all.
So...I've occasionally come across opinions about the series. It seems to me that in nearly every case where I've seen people discussing it online, they've recognized that it was bad. They may or may not think it's so bad it's good, and they may or may not think it's as terrible as you guys do, but virtually none of the thinking internet people I've seen discuss the book seem to think it's good in any real way.
So I just wanted to share this.
My mother and I butt heads a lot, but I still consider her to be one of the most intelligent people I know, with a strong sense of right and wrong and standing up for yourself and all that, and while we do argue a lot I still look up to her.
Last week, my parents went on a vacation to Myrtle Beach with my aunt, uncle, and younger brother. And my uncle posted a picture on Facebook of my mother on the beach, reading Fifty Shades of Grey.
I honestly felt dismayed and a little sickened at that, and I commented "Dislike, I'm so ashamed of you, Mom" because I just couldn't let it go.
"Yeah. It is a truly disgusting book. I must finish it to see the depth to which depravity, degradation and debauchery can sink to."
I cannot tell you how happy I was to read that. XD
(Now I only hope she didn't pay money for the book and is just reading a borrowed copy.)
|Date:||June 6th, 2013 12:25 am (UTC)|| |
I LOVE the definitions...especially this one.
Christian Grey: verb. The act of ravaging a person sexually while blaming one's sexual deviance on a broken psyche, thereby converting the once vial [should be "vile"] act of near-rape into something your partner (and women everywhere) will perceive as romantic and desirable.
Edited at 2013-06-06 12:27 am (UTC)
Don't know if anyone still checks this box out, but the casting for the film has been announced. Hunnam, I am disappoint.
|Date:||September 2nd, 2013 05:48 pm (UTC)|| |
Yup, and here is the link
. However, after all the anti-blond propaganda in these books, I am amused that both Dakota Johnson and Charlie Hunnam are blond.
"Speaking to the Hollywood Reporter at the premiere for series six of Sons of Anarchy, Hunnam also opened up about his initial meetings with the film's director Sam Taylor-Johnson, saying he "felt really intrigued and excited about it" before adding: "I went and read the first book to get a clearer idea of who this character was and felt even more excited about the prospect of bringing him to life."
Hunnam, you're lying or you're lying.
|Date:||October 9th, 2013 01:40 pm (UTC)|| |
He's totally lying. If he just skimmed the first book, what would he notice? That Hellspawn is handsome, rich and obsessed with sex. if he paid attention, he would notice that Hellsapwn is handsome, rich, obsessed with sex, bad-tempered, cruel, and abusive both physically and emotionally...which both the lead and the narrative are unaware of.
He could only be intrigued if he didn't read the book at all and read the description of Hellspawn instead: a man into BDSM who is tormented by numerous inner demons. THAT sounds like there is potential for character growth. Sadly, of course, it's not true.